Stalin’s Conversation with A.M. Kollontai

(November 1939)

Source: Stalin I.V. Works. - T. 18. - Tver: Information and 

Soyuz Publishing Center, 2006, pp. 606–611 (Appendix).
(Its correctness as a document is disputed. However, the context of the writing is not contradictory to Stalin's point of view in related subjects mentioned". 

In March 1938, Nazi Germany unceremoniously occupied Austria. Anschluss did not lead to any protest either from England or from France. The League of Nations did not react either. In September, Chamberlain and Daladier met with Hitler, which ended on their part with the betrayal of Czechoslovakia. The Sudetenland was annexed to Germany.

The leadership of the USSR had pinned great hopes for the Anglo-French-Soviet negotiations (May-August 1939), where our proposal was made to conclude a defense pact between the three powers. However, due to the objections raised by Poland, an ally of England and France, and the boycott from the West, the negotiations were disrupted, and the military collaboration of participating countries became impossible. The Soviet Union had no other way to keep the military threat away from itself, except to accept the German offer to conclude a non-aggression pact, which was signed in Moscow on August 23.

On September 1, 1939, Germany attacked Poland. The Second World War became a fact. On September 28, an agreement was signed in Moscow between the Soviet Union and Germany, which established the western border of the Soviet Union approximately along the ‘Curzon Line’ which was proposed backed in 1919 and approved by England, France, and the USA as the border between us and Poland. Discussions unfolded around the Soviet-German treaties. They were given the most varied, sometimes diametrically opposed, assessments.

Under the conditions of the war in Europe, the security interests of the Soviet Union required strengthening of its boundary with Finland. At that time, the negotiations of Soviet government with the Finnish delegation were taking place in Moscow. These negotiations were difficult and progressed slowly. The Press operated with conjectures and on tendentious rumors. A.M. Kollontai, The Soviet ambassador to Sweden, also did not have sufficient information available to her and, in order to better orient herself, decided to go to Moscow to consult the People’s Commissariat of Foreign Affairs, to get clarifications on the position of the USSR.

Having settled in hotel ‘Moskva’, Aleksandra Mikhailovna began to call V.M. Molotov.

‘I, recalls Kollontai, sat and waited in the lounge for Molotov for hours. The secretaries come back from the office and succinctly throw to me:

– No, still busy, please wait. Finally, a secretary opened the door of Molotov's office door for me:

– Come in, Vyacheslav Mikhailovich is waiting for you.

Molotov began the conversation with the question:

– Have you come to bustle about your Finns?

– I have come to verbally inform you how public opinion abroad perceives our failed negotiations with Finland and personally meet you in order to make an objective and comprehensive report. seems to me that in Moscow they have no idea what a conflict between the Soviet Union and Finland will entail.

– The Scandinavians are convinced by the example of Poland, that we do not give indulgence to the Nazis.

– All the progressive forces of Europe will be on the side of Finland.

– Are you calling the imperialists of England and France progressive forces? We know their tricks. But what about your Swedes? Will they hold on to proclaimed neutrality?

I tried briefly but clearly to point out to Molotov the inevitable consequences that the war would entail. Not only Scandinavians, but also other countries will come out in support of Finland.

At this Molotov interrupted me.

– Do you mean again the "progressive forces" - the imperialists of England and France?

This is all considered by us.

My information was met by Molotov with a decisive challenge. Molotov repeatedly and decisively told me that there was no possibility of reaching an agreement with the Finns. He listed the basics of the draft treaty with Finland, which boiled down to securing our borders and, without infringing on the sovereignty of Finland, give the Finns compensation for moving the boundary line further north. For all the proposals of the USSR, the Finnish delegation had only one prepared answer. ‘No, we cannot accept’.

Since none of the explanations were taken into consideration, this created the impression that the Finnish government has decided for itself the question of the inevitability of war against the USSR. However, the Soviet government, the People's Commissar said, is interested in the neutrality of the Scandinavian countries.

– “Everything possible must be done to keep them from joining the war.

There will be one less front against us, said” Molotov to parting A.M. Kollontai.

With some feeling of dissatisfaction, fatigue, and heavy responsibility, I slowly went to the hotel, going over the details of the meeting with Molotov, - wrote Alexandra Mikhailovna.

- I tried to resolve official issues with the People's Commissariat and the Foreign Trade Department as soon as possible and return to Stockholm. I wanted, conscious of the whole situation, the tension of the moment and the responsibility that fell on Stalin, I could not disturb him ...

Several hectic days passed. I decided almost all my work and was about to leave. Suddenly there was a phone call.

– Comrade Aleksandra Mikhailovna Kollontai?

– Yes, I am listening.

–  Comrade Stalin is inviting you. Could you meet him? And what time would suit you?

I replied any time that is convenient to comrade Stalin. There was silence for a while. Apparently, the secretary reported this to Stalin.

– Can you do it now?

– I Certainly can.

– In seven minutes, the car shall be at the main entrance of hotel ‘Moskva’. Goodbye, Aleksandra Mikhailovna.

I was again in Stalin's Kremlin office. Stalin got up from his desk to meet me and smiling, shook my hand for long time. He asked about my health and requested me to sit down.

Outwardly Stalin appeared tired and preoccupied, but calm and confident, although one can feel that the enormity of the situation was weighing on him. I felt this with particular force when Stalin began to pace back and forth along the long table. His head seemed to be drawn into his shoulders under the weight of things. And then Stalin asked:  "How are things going for you and with your Scandinavian neutrals?

While I was going to answer briefly and, moreover, succinctly, Stalin started to talk about the negotiations with the Finnish delegation in Moscow and about the fact that these six-month long negotiations led nowhere. The Finnish delegation left Moscow in the middle of November, and never returned with the ‘new directives’, as it promised. The treaty, which was supposed to ensure peace and peaceful neighbor relations between the USSR and Finland, remained unsigned. It felt that Stalin was perturbed, but not anxious.

Basically, the conversation was about the situation with Finland. Stalin advised to intensify the work of the Soviet embassy in studying the situation in the Scandinavian countries in connection with the penetration of Germany into these countries in order to attract the governments of Norway and Sweden and influence Finland in order to prevent a conflict. And, as if concluding, he said;  ‘“if it is not possible to prevent it, then it will be short-lived and cost little blood. The time for ‘persuasions’ and of ‘negotiations’ is over. We must practically prepare for a rebuff, for a war with Hitler.’.

I felt as if I had been struck by an electric current. For the first time I felt how close the war was.my notebook fell out of my hands which I took with me when I went to the Kremlin to see Stalin in order to write everything down ...

This time the conversation continued for more than two hours. I did not notice how rapidly the time flew by. Stalin, while talking to me, seemed as if he was at the same time talking aloud to himself. He touched upon many questions: about the defeat of the People’s Front in Spain; talked much about the heroes of this struggle. This only lasted a few minutes. His main thoughts were focused on the position of our country in the world, its role, and potential opportunities. 

‘In this respect, – he stressed – the economy and policy are inseparable’. Speaking about industry and agriculture, he named several persons responsible for the affairs and dozens of names of the leaders of large enterprises, plants, factories, and workers in the field of agriculture. He was especially anxious about the rearmament of the army, as well as the role of the rear in the war; the need to increase vigilance on the border and inside the country, and, as if concluding, he emphasized:  "All this will fall on the shoulders of the Russian people, for the Russian people are a great people; Russian people are kind people. Russians people have a clear mind. The Russian people are born to help others. Russian people have great courage, especially in difficult times, in the dangerous times. They are proactive. They have strong characters. They are dreamy people. They have a purpose. That is why it is harder for them than for other nations. You can rely on them in any trouble. The Russian people are invincible, inexhaustible.”".

I tried not to miss a single word; I wrote so quickly that my pencil broke. I somehow clumsily tried to grab another one standing on the table which almost knocked down its stand. Stalin looked, grinned, and began to light his pipe...

Reflecting about the role of the individual in history, about the past and the future, Stalin touched on many names - from Macedonian to Napoleon. I tried not to miss the order in which he began to list Russian names.

He began with the Kievan princes. Then he listed Alexander Nevsky, Dmitry Donskoy, Ivan Kalita, Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Alexander Suvorov, Mikhail Kutuzov. Graduated with Marx and Lenin.

I wedged in here, I wanted to talk about the role of Stalin in history, but I could only say: ‘Your name will be entered...’ Stalin raised his hand and stopped me, I hesitated. Stalin continued: 

Many deeds of our party and people will be perverted and abused, primarily in foreign countries and, in our country too. Zionism is striving for world domination, will cruelly take revenge on us for our successes and achievements. They still view Russia as a barbarian country, as a raw material appendage. And my name will also be slandered; it is being slandered even now. Many evil deeds will be attributed to me. 

World Zionism will strive with all its might to destroy our union, so that Russia could never rise again. The strength of the USSR is in the friendship of the peoples. The edge of the struggles will be directed, first of all, towards the breaking of this friendship, at tearing the border regions away from Russia. here, we must admit, we have not done everything much. There is still a lot of work to be done here. Nationalism will raise its head with particular force. It will crush internationalism and patriotism for a while, only for a while. There will be national groups within nations and conflicts. Many pygmy leaders, traitors within their nations will appear. 

In general, in the future, the development will proceed in a more complex and more frenzied ways, the turns will be extremely sharp. The point is that the east will be especially agitated. There will be sharp contradictions with the West.  And nevertheless, no matter how these events develop, a time will pass, and the eyes of the new generations will turn to the deeds and victories of our socialist fatherland. Year after year the new generations will come. They will once again raise the banner of their fathers and grandfathers, and they will give us their dues in full. They will build their future on our past.

"This conversation", Kollontai wrote," made an indelible impression on me. I took a different look at the world around me. I turned to it mentally many, many times already during the war years and after it, re-read it repeatedly and all the time found something new in it, some kind of turn, some new facet. And now, as if in reality, I see Stalin's office in the Kremlin. It has a long table and Stalin ..."

As I left the office, I felt a sense of sadness. Saying goodbye, Joseph Vissarionovich said;  Brace yourself. Hard times are coming. They must be overcome.

And, in a softer voice, he said: We will overcome. We definitely will overcome! Take care of yourself, improve your health, temper yourself in the fight!

Leaving the Kremlin, I did not walk; I just ran, noticing no one, repeating, so not to forget what Stalin said. Entering the house, I immediately pulled out the notebook with my notes; grabbed some paper and began to write. I looked at the clock. It was already deep night. The clock showed ten minutes to two...’

_______

Note.

Extracts from the diaries of A.M. Kollontai, located in the archives of the Ministry of External Affairs of the Russian Federation; reproduced by historian M.I. Trushe.

Dialog, 1998, No. 8, pp. 92-94

I.V. Stalin, ‘Sochinenia’, Vol. 18, 1917-1953, Informatsionno-izdatelskiy 

‘Soyuz’, Tver, 2006, pp. 606-611.

https://c21ch.newcastle.edu.au/stalin/t18/t18_267.htm

Translation Svitlana M.