Stalin's conversation with A.M. Kollontai (November 1939)

Note; It has been confirmed that Kollontai during her referenced visit did not have a meeting with Stalin. However, contrary to the bourgeois critique, what makes a statement "forgery" is its context; claiming something said or done contrary to the known facts. Trushe may have not cross checked the source, may have confused the dates, may have believed it has taken place by relying on a secondary source . That does not make it "forgery" as long as the context of what is said is not contradictory to what is known to be correct. Stalin had already made similar statements in his various conversations. So, nothing stated in that "conversation" is contrary" to the known facts. What matter is the correctness or falsehood of the context, the "statement" made within the "disputed" meeting to call it "forgery." If the context  is contradictory to Stalin's earlier statements then it would be called "forgery". 

*****
Source: Stalin I.V. Works. - T. 18. - Tver: Informational publishing center "Soyuz", 2006. P. 606–611 (appendix)

In March 1938, Nazi Germany unceremoniously seized Austria. The Anschluss provoked no protest from either England or France. The League of Nations did not react either. In September, Chamberlain and Daladier met with Hitler, which ended on their part with the betrayal of Czechoslovakia. The Sudetenland was annexed to Germany.

The leadership of the USSR pinned great hopes on the Anglo-French-Soviet negotiations (May-August 1939), where our proposal was made to conclude a defensive pact of the three powers. However, due to the objections of the ally of England and France - Poland - and the boycott from the West, the negotiations were disrupted and military cooperation of the participating countries became impossible. The Soviet Union had no other way to distance itself from the military threat, except to accept the German offer to conclude a non-aggression pact, which was signed in Moscow on August 23.

On September 1, 1939, Germany attacked Poland. World War II became a fact. On September 28, in Moscow, an agreement was signed between the Soviet Union and Germany, which established the western border of the USSR approximately along the "Curzon Line" proposed back in 1919 by Britain, France and the United States as the border between us and Poland. Discussions developed around the Soviet-German treaties. They were given the most varied, sometimes diametrically opposite, assessments.

In the conditions of the war in Europe, the security interests of the Soviet Union demanded the strengthening of its border with Finland. At this time, negotiations between the Soviet government and the Finnish delegation were taking place in Moscow. They were difficult, and moving slowly. The press operated on guesses and tendentious rumors. A.M. Kollontai, the Soviet ambassador to Sweden, also did not have enough information and, in order to better orientate herself, decided to go to Moscow, consult with the People's Commissariat of Foreign Affairs, and obtain clarification of the USSR's position.

After settling in the hotel "Moscow", Alexandra Mikhailovna began to call V.M. Molotov.

“I,” - Kollontai recalls-, “sit and wait in the waiting room for a call  Molotov. I waited for hours. The secretaries return from the office and succinctly throw to me:

- No, still busy, wait. Finally, the secretary opens the door of Molotov's office for me:

- Come in, Vyacheslav Mikhailovich is waiting for you.

Molotov began the conversation with a question:

- Have you come to plead for your Finns?

- I came to inform you orally how public opinion abroad perceives our failed negotiations with Finland. When meeting in person, make an objective and complete report. It seems to me that in Moscow they have no idea what the conflict between the Soviet Union and Finland will entail.

- The Scandinavians were convinced by the example of Poland that we do not give concessions to the Nazis.

- All progressive forces in Europe will be on the side of Finland.

- Are you calling the imperialists of England and France progressive forces? We are familiar with their intrigues. And how are your Swedes? Will they stick to the declared neutrality?

I tried briefly but clearly to point out to Molotov the inevitable consequences that the war would entail. Not only Scandinavians, but also other countries will stand up for Finland.

At this Molotov interrupted me.

- Do you mean again the "progressive forces" - the imperialists of Britain and France? All this has been taken into account by us.

My information was met with a decisive rejection by Molotov. Molotov several times insistently repeated to me that there was no way to come to an agreement with the Finns. He listed the fundamentals of the draft treaty with Finland, which boiled down to securing our borders and, without encroaching on the independence of Finland, compensated the Finns for moving the border line further north. The Finnish delegation had only one answer to all the proposals of the USSR: "No, we cannot accept."

Since no arguments were taken into account, this created the impression that the Finnish government had decided for itself the question of the inevitability of a war against the USSR. However, the Soviet government, the People's Commissar said, is interested in the neutrality of the Scandinavian countries.

A.M. Molotov in parting; We must do everything possible to keep them from entering the war. One front against us will be less, - said Kollontai. 

With some feeling of dissatisfaction, fatigue and a growing heavy responsibility, I slowly went to the hotel, going over the details of the meeting with Molotov, - wrote Alexandra Mikhailovna. - I tried to resolve official issues of the People's Commissariat and Foreign Trade Department as soon as possible and return to Stockholm. I wanted, especially after meeting with Molotov, to call Stalin. I was torn internally several times, but, realizing the whole situation, the tension of the moment and the responsibility that fell on Stalin, I could not bother him ...

Several hectic days passed. I completed almost all my business and was about to leave. Suddenly the phone rang.

- Comrade Alexandra Mikhailovna Kollontai?

- Yes. I'm listening to you.

- Comrade Stalin is inviting you. Could you meet? And what time would suit you?

I replied that at any moment, as it pleases Comrade Stalin.

There was a moment of silence. Apparently, the secretary reported to Stalin.

- Can you now?

- Certainly can.

“In seven minutes the car will be at the main entrance of the Moscow Hotel. Goodbye, Alexandra Mikhailovna.

I am again in Stalin's office in the Kremlin. Stalin got up from behind his desk to meet me and, smiling, shook my hand for a long time. He asked about my health and offered to sit down.

Outwardly, Stalin looked tired, anxious, but calm, confident, although one could feel what a lump of weight was on him. I felt this with particular force when Stalin began to walk back and forth along the long table. His head seemed to be pulled into his shoulders under a multitude of cases. And then Stalin asked: "How are you and your Scandinavian neutrals doing?"

While I was about to give a brief and, moreover, a succinct answer, Stalin started talking about the negotiations with the Finnish delegation in Moscow, about the fact that the six-month negotiations had led nowhere. The Finnish delegation left Moscow in mid-November and never returned with "new directives" as promised. The treaty, which was supposed to ensure peace and peaceful neighborhood between the USSR and Finland, remained unsigned. Stalin was worried, but no anxiety was felt. 

Basically, the conversation revolved around the situation with Finland. Stalin advised to strengthen the work of the Soviet embassy to study the situation in the Scandinavian countries in connection with the penetration of Germany into these countries, in order to attract the governments of Norway and Sweden and influence Finland in order to prevent any conflict. And, as if concluding, he said that “if it is not possible to prevent it, then it will be short-lived and will cost a little blood. The time for "persuasion" and "negotiations" is over. We must practically prepare for a rebuff, for a war with Hitler. "

I felt as if I had been struck by some kind of electric current. For the first time I felt how close the war was. Even a notebook fell out of my hands, which I took with me when I went to the Kremlin to see Stalin in order to write everything down ...

This time the conversation lasted more than two hours. I didn’t notice how quickly the time flew by. Stalin, talking with me, at the same time, as it were, reasoned aloud with himself. He touched upon many questions: about the defeat of the Popular Front in Spain, talked a lot about the heroes of this struggle. This only lasted a few minutes. His main thoughts were focused on the position of our country in the world, its role and potential opportunities. "In this regard," he stressed, "economics and politics are inseparable." Speaking about industry and agriculture, he named several persons in charge of affairs and dozens of names of heads of large enterprises, factories and workers in agriculture. He was especially concerned about the rearmament of the army, as well as the role of the rear in the war, the need to strengthen vigilance on the border and inside the country. And, as if concluding, “All this will fall on the shoulders of the Russian people. For the Russian people are a great people. The Russian people are a kind people. The Russian people have a clear mind. He is, as it were, born to help other nations. Great courage is inherent in the Russian people, especially in difficult times, in dangerous times. He is initiative. He has a strong character. He is a dreamy people. He has a purpose. Therefore, it is harder for him than for other nations. You can rely on him in any trouble. The Russian people are irresistible, inexhaustible. "

I tried not to miss a single word, jotting down so quickly that the pencil broke. I somehow awkwardly tried to grab the second of those standing on the table, which almost knocked down their stand. Stalin looked, grinned and began to light his pipe ...

Reflecting on the role of personality in history, the past and the future, Stalin touched upon many names - from Macedonian to Napoleon. I tried not to miss the order in which he began to list Russian names.

He began with the princes of Kiev. Then he listed Alexander Nevsky, Dmitry Donskoy, Ivan Kalita, Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Alexander Suvorov, Mikhail Kutuzov. He graduated with Marx and Lenin.

I broke in here, I wanted to say about the role of Stalin in history. But she only said: "Your name will be inscribed ..." Stalin raised his hand and stopped me. I was embarrassed. Stalin continued:

“Many deeds of our party and people will be distorted and spat upon, first of all abroad, and in our country too. Zionism, striving for world domination, will brutally take revenge on us for our successes and achievements. They still view Russia as a barbarian country, as an appendage of raw materials. And my name will also be slandered. Many atrocities will be attributed to me. World Zionism will strive with all its might to destroy our Union so that Russia can never rise again. The strength of the USSR lies in the friendship of peoples. The spearhead of the struggle will be directed primarily at breaking this friendship, at separating the outskirts from Russia. Here, I must admit, we have not done everything yet. There is still a lot of work to do here.

Nationalism will raise its head with special force. It will crush internationalism and patriotism for a while, only for a while. National groups within nations and conflicts will arise. Many pygmy leaders will appear, traitors within their nations.

In general, in the future, development will proceed in more complex and even frantic ways, the turns will be extremely steep. The point is that the East will be especially agitated. Sharp contradictions with the West will arise.

And yet, no matter how events develop, time will pass, and the eyes of new generations will be turned to the deeds and victories of our socialist Fatherland. Year after year, new generations will come. They will once again raise the banner of their fathers and grandfathers and give us their due. They will build their future on our past. "

“This conversation,” Kollontai wrote down, “made an indelible impression on me. I looked differently at the world around me. I turned to it mentally many, many times already during the war years and after it, re-read it repeatedly and all the time found something new in it, some kind of turn, some new facet. And now,  as in reality, I see Stalin's office in the Kremlin. It has a long table and Stalin ...

Leaving the office, I was seized by some kind of sadness. Saying goodbye, Iosif Vissarionovich said: “Be strong. Hard times are not far off. They must be overcome. " And after a little pause, he said: “We will overcome. We will definitely overcome! Take care of yourself, strengthen your health, be tempered in the fight! "

Coming out of the Kremlin, I did not walk, I just ran, not noticing anyone, repeating so as not to forget what Stalin had said. Entering the house, I immediately pulled out a notebook with my notes, grabbed the paper and began to write. She looked at her watch. It was already deep night. The clock showed ten minutes to two ... ".

Dialogue. 1998. No. 8. P. 92–94 .

Note

Extracts from the diaries of A.M. Kollontai, stored in the Archives of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, were produced by the historian M.I. Trush.